The birth of startup union


According to the fact that virtual businesses union election is on the way, we hosted Hamid Mohammadi Cofounder of DigiKala, Shahram Shahkar CEO of Snapp, Majid HosseiniNejad CEO of Alibaba, Mohamad Karami vice president of Hamrahe Aval interactive media, Mostafa SaeidNejad CEO of Shabake Motarjemin, Hamidreza EtedalMehr chairman of the board and Reza OlfatNasab Secretary of the Internet Business Association and tried to talk about concerns and hopes regarding the new union.

  • At first I want you to answer this question that how you predict the future union and with which insight you have formed this union?

EtedalMehr: during these years of ecosystem life, we have always looked for a place where we can talk in our own language.

Make sure to read this post carefully:

From 1388 or 1389 when the government decided to enter the field of internet, everything messed up.

As people who had website since 1380 or 1381, without any bad happening, without the need for regulatory teams, all people did their tasks and there was no hopelessness.

All people loved their jobs. The fact is that we need a place today that can determine specific domain of vocabulary.

Also forming a union is a relation between those who have studied economy, or have IT degrees or have brought such thing from other parts of the world to Iran and made domestication in Iran and there should be a discussion with a government that is so much traditional.

In fact many of current rules are more than 70 years old and it is impossible to apply them to today issues. We can’t make a distinction between terms like guild, trade and commerce.

Thus we can’t talk about our wishes with officials and tell them different parts of our business. And when concepts like tax, insurance and other topics or articles related to the government are offered, they can’ not be interpreted or they aren’t in accordance with current situation.

Thus when a person refers to an agency or organization, he would face with a closed door and the result is the high statistics of bankruptcy or closure.

The question is that startups that are at the top of pyramid and are the most successful ones, are they most hopeful and satisfied ones as well?

Can they hope for the next six months? I think we as people who are optimistic and prefer to work instead of complaining, what is in our mind as an union, is a hall where we have gathered and can talk and some are listening and some people understand both the technical language of startups and language of government.

The fact is that we aren’t a guild unit but we accept to get license so that we can find a way to match current situation with those who are supposed to observe us.

Hamid Mohammadi: I think that one of the important tasks of a union is to get the government familiar with the nature of activities of these businesses.

The main reason of unkindness towards startups is lack of knowledge and not conflict of interest with traditional field. This lack of knowledge leads to security accusation and getting license one after another.

This union should be the representative of startups and can increase the level of knowledge of decision-making and regulatory agencies about the nature of this field and these businesses so that they follow the requests of startups.

Shahram Shahkar: I agree with them. We hold many meetings with different officials and talked about the problems, there were similar topics in these meetings and that was the nature of these new businesses is different with that of traditional ones and thus all aspects of them such as insurance and tax are different.

Even if the rules become updated, the nature of internet businesses should be paid into attention and based on that rules would be updated.

A business which is market place and connects supply and demand and acts as a technology based business, hasn’t had any history in Iran even until recent years.

Thus tax rules look at these businesses in detail. On the other hand, these businesses were orphans and haven’t had any specific trustee.

For example, they told us we should get a license for Snap but it wasn’t clear who was the trustee and license issuer for a business like Snapp.

To which union we should refer. Some even said that we had to have commercial property and parking and work in a specific limit.

We didn’t have any trustee and in fact we had all types of trustees. Another issue is that these agencies are apart from one another and even their rules are in contrary to each other.
Even if we accept license multiplication, some of the rules are in contrary to each other. Thus having a union that negotiates and make the framework is necessary.

Shahkar: a business that is market place and connects a supply and a demand and acts as a technology based business, hasn’t had any history in Iran even until recent years.

Thus tax rules look at these businesses in detail. On the other hand, these businesses were orphans and haven’t had any specific trustee.

  • Hashemi: thus we are approaching a common dialogue that union is going to solve the problem of startups.

HosseiniNejad: I should add a sentence.

  • Hashemi: I wanted to ask the next question that which problems do you have in your business and can the union solve your problems?

HosseiniNejad: I think in the field of internet businesses, the rival of Snapp or DigiKala, is a young person who has sat in student dormitory and thinks about launching his startup.

Union is a place where should support innovation; that is the definition of law for a new thing.

If it is to make an entrepreneurship space in Iran and use smart and creative capacities, the union should support rules for innovation and I think this is the most important duty of the union not that it merely supports the interests of those who are present in the market; it should support all activists.

The rival of Snapp or DigiKala, is a young person who has sat in student dormitory and thinks about launching his startup.

Union is a place where should support innovation; that is the definition of law for a new thing. If it is to make an entrepreneurship space in Iran and use smart and creative capacities, the union should support rules for innovation and I think this is the most important duty of the union not that it merely supports the interests of those who are present in the market.

  • Hashemi: do you believe that the union has the role of providing infrastructures for young people to enter this field?

HosseiniNejad: It should think about young people that can make businesses that don’t exist right now. Platforms that haven’t come to Iran yet or haven’t been created at all.

But if I want to talk about problems with which I have faced myself, I should mention that in Alibaba business there were talks about license as well.

From tourism organization to national airline. Many of the things you want to do, don’t have license at all. You should pay a cost and register another agency.

Union can gather all under its umbrella and support innovation. Because innovation is in contrary to current rules and there may be problems that the union can solve.

  • Hashemi: Mr. Mohammadi, what kind of problem is yours in DigiKala and does the formation of the union can contribute to solving or reducing your problems or businesses like you?

Mohammadi: our problems are related to the industry where we are in; that is the industry of E-commerce.

In this model it is necessary to follow some rules, because we are B2C business that for example can’t move beyond rules of support for consumer which exist in offline space and expect that these rules don’t exist for us.

Or if the offline space is required to get value added tax on retail from the customer, we should get that too; that is we both should get the tax. Some of the problems come back to the nature of our business that is crystal clear.

For example the price for all customers in every part of Iran is the same and there isn’t any difference and we are 100% clear.

Another part of this unfair game is about not following things that is good to be executed and they should be done by offline field based on the law and I don’t think that it is good that our guild team won’t execute them.

In insurance, tax, added value, and … we should support all 100% clear issues. War is useless and we shouldn’t say why they don’t get added value in Jomhuri Street.

We don’t want to get around the law like other startups. For example, if we don’t get 9% tax, we can dominate offline space. But we don’t do that.

In spite of all these clarities in the field of insurance, tax and … they say put these aside because based on a topic published somewhere your income is some other figures and if we calculate and you have 200% growth rate per year, the would be a different figure than what you said.

That is they consider us the same as an owner of a store who has no list of sales and calculate our tax like him.

This ruins our growth and it seems that there is an incentive that doesn’t want such businesses to grow. Sometimes some organizations issue an order based on guess and contradictory ne

ws and they say you have sold that much and should pay that much tax. We are among the best in terms of the amount of payment and receipt, when we offer this statistics, they say now that you provide this figure, how much is the real figure!!

They say we guess that your sale is one tenth of this figure and you may conceal a part! I think all tax and regulatory organizations should assume that there is a healthy situation because they have regulatory tools.

Because these businesses are run with system and software and can be controlled. I in DigiKala can’t sell one needle without recording it in the system and everything is clear. We all should consider this assumption. The assumption of health of this field.

HosseiniNejad: I think one of your most important problems in DigiKala is smuggling goods because those who import smuggling goods, don’t pay added value but you pay it and this mean unfair competition because they can sell with lower price.

Mohammadi: exactly the number one Iran online retail is smuggling or Gray market. While regulatory organizations manage even import system via online businesses.

It is clear that who, sells which good with what price. Control is not in contrary with being clear and it also helps legal import and creates clearness. We really fight to satisfy organizations to sell goods with a definite bill.

  • Hashemi: Mr. Olfat Nasab, you are in the association and believe this union should be formed, which problems would be solved in Iran entrepreneurship ecosystem?

This is the most important thing that union can do. It neutralizes the program that had been created so that each internet business receives license from different unions based on its business field.

For example, DigiKala or Snapp should get license from tens of unions. Forming union would stop this trend. When article 87 had been approved, it helped because they caused the whole online system to be ruined.

Shahkar: Even they want us to get the union license of each city to which we enter.
OlfatNasab: now we have 8500 unions in our country. If we were to get license from every union, what a space would be created.

Another important thing is that they wanted us to connect to other organizations instead of forming an independent union.

Organizations like development center, computer union organization and … but we came to this conclusion that the size of internet businesses is much bigger than that they be connected to other organization.

Up to now we didn’t have a place that talks to public department directly and without fear. Pay attention that development center electronic businesses are connected to the government, the order of computer union organization that has made efforts in this field, would be signed by the president based on law.

Such an organization can’t object in front of a minister in our favor. But we experienced independence in internet business society.

We have always talked about our thoughts. Thus we believe that the union with its tools, can check the problems and claim with strong voice.

Claiming doesn’t mean becoming an opposition in fact we believe that we can solve our problems in the framework of our country’s rules.

Albeit startup people have the problem of lacking knowledge about the law and even they don’t know how the union works.

Some of them object why we want to launch a union?! Our answer is that if the union isn’t formed, you have to get each one of your licenses from different unions.

That is we spent so much time for the members of ecosystem to explain to them what the union is and what it is used for.

  • Hashemi: Mr. Karami, which problems does Hamrahe Aval that feels the need of forming a union?

Karami: right now operators have a challenge named digital transformation and surely when each operator calculates, it sees that the income from Voice and SMS is decreasing and people are using services more.

Then operator begins preparing a service platform and the whole system has this responsibility.

That is the responsibility of preparing a middle platform that is installed in Hamrahe Aval and startups provide their services on upper layers by using this space.

Then operator considers facilities in BSS, CRM, advertisement sections and … When this space is ready, and we invite startups from different fields like health, education, news, sports and … in which we have entered as well, 10 out of 15 startups face many problems.

When startups face problems and their business doesn’t work, there would be no income for the operator. Another duty of our community is analyzing and developing online platforms in the government.

I agree with Mr. Mohammadi. This ignorance has three parts; that is one startup faces three parts; one part is people that are exposed to Ecommerce-fearing project.

In this way that every two months IRIB makes a program and shows logos of some famous businesses and says some people are violating the rules. Thus trust space is taken from people.

The second part of ignorance is about government. I think the union shouldn’t, for example, look for changing the rules of tax at first and this can’t be the first goal of the union.

The problem is that in the tax system there are about 32000 employees and in the insurance system about 14000 people are working.

These people should be persuaded one by one that for example one startup faces loss in which situations. In meetings about startups, players of this field are not invited.

But the union would at least attend such meetings and says that it should attend meetings of public organizations. But FinTech in which no comment and instruction had done in absence of people of that field.

If we consider the change of rules as the second goal of the union, the first goal should be to explain business model of online businesses to employees of public organizations related to this field.

In groups and meetings that are making decision for online field, if only one person has used Snapp or bought a thing from DigiKala, it would change the kind of decision making.

In fact the union should launch the training movement. At first it should take public trainings for people into consideration that this space isn’t a problematic space which is drawn for you.

In fact business models should be taught to employees of organizations. The third part is offline and traditional businesses that make many problems. Because they are always worried that startups enter their business space.

While they should be trained that startups aren’t to take their space. In fact they connect the customer to them. If the union can solve the ignorance in these three groups, it would do a big thing.

  • Hashemi: Mr. Saeed Nejad, what functions can the union have in your opinion?

SaeedNejad: I think the main role of the union can be that of other unions that is business license. Because right now the main problem of all internet businesses is license and lack of somewhere from which they can get license.

This would continue and everyday there would be an innovation but the problem of license exists. We are from translation field and got license from 4 to 5 public and legal organizations but still fear of becoming filtered. Something should be done.

There should a single reference for issuing license. Internet businesses are oppressed and although people are satisfied with them, they are exposed to attack from different aspects. While millions of Iranians use the services of these businesses every day.

But if one case of dissatisfaction occurs, they exaggerate it and fear people and make unsafe environment.

In 1385 or 1386 no one paid attention to this field but now there are many trustees and they all want to give us license. The union can organize this field and solve the problem of license.

I think 80 percent of problems would be solved in this way. In the next stage, we can deal with insurance and … The union can make the infrastructure of bargaining for supporting this field.

Another goal the union can follow, is the support for small and middle businesses. we should have this approach so that young people can enter the field with ease.

  • Hashemi: Mr. Mohammadi, you mentioned problems that come from lack of knowledge and problems related to insurance and tax that seems to be cultural problems and it takes time to solve them. I think the union can’t solve such problems; do you think that the union can solve these problems that for example they don’t want you to pay ex-offcio tax?

Mohammadi: I think the union can play an important role. It’s not necessary that it changes the insight of all employees of organizations and government because you are right and this is a long term trend and maybe it is necessary that every one of the employees get familiar so that the insight of decision makers in upper levels change.

Also the union can help to be the facilitator of law or getting the agreements in direct relation with organizations like officers of asset department, tax organization and social security.

They reach to agreement that if a company has such a license, they invite the union representative in tax and insurance cases as a person who can advise them and find their business nature. At least they don’t enter the case with closed eyes.

For example, for examining tax case of DigiKala they can get help from those present in the union. In fact I believe that the presence of union can help so much and can create or even change rules in favor of online businesses.

  • Hashemi: Mr. Hosseini Nejad, answer my question. Friends say that in the government, they don’t understand us. Do you believe this? What is your language that they don’t undedrstand it?

HosseiniNejad: I had a dispute with an official in tourism organization that had filtered Jabama. I’m not technical but I knew that their knowledge about technical things was even less than me.

For example they said you have two sites and you can’t manage them with one company. Because the range of their IP is different. My answer was that we would unify IP range.

That person was IT man of that organization and not tourism expert but had little knowledge. As others have mentioned, the origin of these problems is ignorance and lack of knowledge.

There were even people who said this filtering may be because of hostility but I didn’t think that and believed its origin was ignorance about the nature of online businesses.

For example, people said to me in tourism organization that the name of site and company should be the same! It shows that they know nothing.

  • Hashemi: why are managers and officials of the government so ignorant although they make the decisions?

HosseiniNejad: the one whom I talked to didn’t have the second card code and hasn’t purchased a product online but he was an official who had to manage internet businesses.

If there is a union, I can talk with organizations because the union has power. Union license can improve the process.

For example, a prosecutor told me that I had brought a license from tourism organization that had filtered me and my license was useless!

They said they would filter Alibaba because we have given you the license for selling tours but you sell tickets as well. In fact they wanted me to have separate sites with separate licenses for tour, hotel, ticket and etc. and launch a company for each one of them.

  • Hashemi: Mr. Shahkar, you answer this question. There are people who say in addition to all current discussions, the main problem is the presence of a power which is losing its interests. Do you believe that this field doesn’t understand the language of online businesses or are their interests in danger?

Shahkar: I think it differs case by case. We can’t say that all their interests are in danger and the reason of their resistance and barriers is their endangered interests. Because a part of the government doesn’t have any interest at all.

But those public agencies which consider themselves the trustee of online business rules, what they know is the traditional form of businesses not the new form.

That is, for example, they are used to get a taxi with a telephone call and everything outside of this framework is illegal in their opinion.

If an innovation takes place, we shouldn’t say where it is to be placed in the law and if it wasn’t placed in the law, consider it as illegal.

Rules should be updated or rules specific to it should be introduced. The government shouldn’t call new businesses illegal because of their new nature.

On the other hand, agencies have lost a large part of their past customers because a business has come that provide cheaper and better service and it they can’t improve their service, they can’t compete with us.

This part certainly refers to the government according to traditional rules to confront us; when the rules of this field haven’t been edited, the government wouldn’t consider a place for new businesses and call them illegal and filter them.

It is true that their market would become small and this has happened for agencies and many fields. The union can support its members in such cases.

  • Hashemi: Mr. Etedal Mehr, you mentioned that there would be a hope if a union is formed; Mr. Hashemi talks about launching a union with hope. All people are hopeful but some are worried that how would be the combination of this union? Do all those who vote in this union, come from startups and do they all think like you?

EtedalMehr: Let me talk about some issues if you don’t mind. One is that I think the biggest thing the union would do is to show an aspect about which no one has talked.

Look, the business whose representative is Shahram Shahkar and is present here or Mr. Mohammadi from DigiKala or other friends, haven’t talked about the other side of them.

For example, maybe when Snap came, hundreds of people didn’t use taxi agencies and… but this wasn’t mentioned that how many people put their cars in parking and use this service because this service was affordable and good and had positive impact on traffic and air pollution reduction.

Or a business like DigiKala that has reduced the commute to many shopping centers. On the other hand, by providing high quality and verified products, it became a barrier to many trial cases and helped customers.

Also courts have become less crowded and statistics have become clear and the number of non-original products is reduced and the warranties have become active.

I as an external observer know that the money DigiKala has spent on its legal platforms, equals the capital for launching a startup.

Now in home alliance market they should have three-year tax history in order to sell their products to DigiKala. Otherwise, DigiKala doesn’t work with them.

Those who don’t have tax history, find a company that has such requirements and pay the commission so that they sell their products to DigiKala through their channel that is, DigiKala has created a space in which people pay bribes to pay value added tax and sell products with official bills.

We don’t have a unified voice and place and each one of us speak in different places. Thus beating us doesn’t cost much and no one may be upset about that.

If for example Mr. Hosseini Nejad’s business is closed, no one would remember that the ticket he provides for 50,000 or 100,000 were sold 400,000 or 500,000 tomans more until two years ago and sometimes people paid the money and went to the airport and got no ticket.

Alibaba and other companies like Alibaba solved these problems. We can ask security department of the airport that with such agencies that have article A and sell tickets, how the number of complaints has changed since two years ago when tickets were sold by joggers.

Different readers would read this thus it’s better to give an example. Mr. Saeedi Nejad is a freelancer. For example insurance law says get 15/65 money for all contracts and deposit it to insurance account.

Now imagine that one contractor company gets 20 big projects during its work life and works with 20 people. And multiplies its income with 16/65 and deposits it to insurance account and then goes for a barter.

No one has ever said on behalf of them as a unified voice that if for example translation businesses work with five persons, deposition of such insurance would be reasonable but when it is even possible to work with 2000 people, what would be the explanation of deposition to your account and when would the cost be returned?

Thus such a law is not suitable. About taxes, people get KPA to receive tax. There is an unwritten law that if a person has paid 10 million toman tax this year, he should pay for example more than 12/5 million toman next year based on formulations.

The government has written it before for tax units and based on that it has defined KPA for them. I saw a case where the owner of a business said he had paid 160 million tomans from the salaries paid because it didn’t fit.

It means that for example it isn’t suitable that for sellers work in a 12-meter supermarket and thus they deny the annual salary of two of them.

But in online commerce, there isn’t such an application. Or the current law says if you lose, you wouldn’t have the qualification for your property and you need a legal guardian.

That is officials think that Iranian startup managers are separated because their businesses fails.

In fact forming a union leads to a unified voice that tells public organizations that they don’t have the right to evaluate costs of internet businesses with their knowledge and consider insurance, tax and … based on that.

  • Hashemi: do you think that union combination would reach these goals? Are all people who have license, startups?

EtedalMehr: if they aren’t, they don’t disrupt the society we want to form in order to solve startup problems.

For example, Pars Online company has license but it has startup concerns as well but its presence among those who get service from us, doesn’t cause problem. We all use internet and have many common concerns.

  • Hashemi: Mr. Karami, I mean some people who become the members of this union are from the field of electronics; why do we want to launch union, that is can’t Union Organization deal with this?

We referred to many places because of our concerns and Union Organization hasn’t done a thing. They always refer us to Ecommerce Development Center.

Many of the works this union does are among the duties of Ecommerce Development Center. When this union is formed, it would provide service, it isn’t something that computer union organization with its commissions do.

  • Hashemi: Mr. Mohammadi, don’t you think that forming this union is like reinventing a wheel?

Mohammadi: I don’t really know but I want to ask this question that is the mission of computer organization in such a way that it can solve all the issues about online businesses?

Maybe there is hope that this union increases the power of negotiation and concerns would be discussed easier. We predict that one day we would face all traditional unions and presence of online business union can facilitate the path.

These differences say that the union should be close to current formats but has other mechanism to solve the problems.

Even we think that to whom and which units this union can and should or shouldn’t give license. For example, can Kaveh fire proof save, whose part of its products are sold online, get the license?

According to out contact with union organization in recent years, we saw that things are getting better and some measures have been done but there is a doubt whether an executive power is present or not.

  • Hashemi: I agree but let us talk about the criticism of opponents. They say that large number of people in the field of computer has come to this union, that is they occupy a significant part and they aren’t startup people.

OlfatNasab: according to union law article 87, each business that wants to have sales in virtual space, should get a license from national union.

A place like union organization, has supportive law. It supports you software. It is like that municipality gives the license for building a place and if a café is built in it, it should get license from municipality.

Our friends in union computer organization make this mistake and they have transferred it to our people as well. But how can they solve contradiction with unions?!

Because unions say for example DigiKala sells mobile and should sit aside and let us solve the problems. Here union organization can’t play a role.

Everyone who want to sell online should have union standards and this avoids every person to launch a site for itself.

OlfatNasab: we have 8500 unions in the country. If we were to get license from every union, what a space there would be created.

Another important thing is that they asked us to connect to another organization instead of forming an independent union.

Organizations like development center, computer union organization and … but we came to this conclusion that internet businesses are bigger than that they be connected to other ogranizations

Mohammadi: in groups in which internet businesses are, they are almost young and idealist. The negative point they would say about forming a union is why we want to set rules while we should remove them.

Who said that an online activity should have a license? These are related to the past and traditions.
These things are in the mind of many people. I’m not sure what the correct answer is but I think this isn’t removing rules and it creates rules.

But when we look ahead, we see when you enter a business, you face many problems where instead of a union, different unions and organizations are the other part of it.

OlfatNasab: friends shouldn’t have fear of union and we are here for solving the problems.

  • Hashemi: according to the formation of union, what have you considered in order to protect the health of union and it wouldn’t become a mafia and the union becomes your problem?

Karami: this is very important for us. We don’t want online businesses to become worse and we don’t want anyone think that forming a union means forming a mafia or a group to control this ecosystem and if this is so, I don’t want to be a member of it.

Mohammadi: I think that this union is like a country which is loyal to its desires with its constitution and the most important thing is that this union has a principle to which it adheres.

OlfatNasab: another point is that union works in a framework for example it has time interval that is required to determine things for example when it requests for a license, it should reply and have a good reason.

Everyone who wants to launch an internet business should support it naturally.

  • Hashemi: about the union, one of the things that opponents say is this union want to set rules for startups.

SaeedNejad: maybe some of those who form a union, want monopoly but this union is not formed with such an intention. In fact it looks at the future and doesn’t want to be a barrier.

When a person enters the union, he/she has the right to vote. On the other hand everyone who has qualifications, should receive license.

EtedalMehr: we are not qualified to say how would happen and later those who have more votes can talk about the future and mechanism because this is a collective work and at the end consensus of those who got the votes would determine.

For example one of the questions asked by Shahram Shahkar was that what percent of our work would be online?!

But because we are in online space, we wouldn’t sit behind closed doors and consult but we publish each speech and meeting.

  • Hashemi: would you really do that?

Etedal Mehr: I think this would be an unwritten commitment letter among us. The truth is those who are in this meeting, have stable concern.

Thus we need good rules to be stable and solve the concerns. Therefore it’s better that each happening become accessible to everyone. Because union is national and its only path is internet.

Another point is that we shouldn’t make mirage by mistake. The truth is that our powers are limited and that on one hand the government has been closed to us and set some borders, on the other hand the municipality has set some limits, thus we should move in a scope and we can’t consider all problems solved by launching a union.

Mohammadi: I think there is misunderstanding about the meaning of union; do we mean an organization that issues licenses when we say union?

Or a regulatory organization? Is this its goal? The meaning of a union should be that it defends the members. Our concern is that we become a barrier for them.

Mohammadi: is the mission of computer union organization in such a way that it can solve all the issues about online businesses?

Maybe there is hope that presence of this union would increase the power of negotiation and concerns would be discussed easier.

We predict that one day we would face all traditional unions and presence of online business union can facilitate the path.

Shahkar: I believe this isn’t a barrier but if it is, it would be from a union whose nature is online not the unions that don’t know the nature of this space.

I totally agree with Mr. Etedal Mehr that he says we are clear and if this union is formed from businesses who claim to be clear, it should be the symbol of clearness.

From its meetings to decisions and rules and licenses it gives. Otherwise, its own members would object and like other formations, all things wouldn’t be done by members and it is supposed to use the capacities of all members.

Members of board of managers can have a consensus for decision making and we work in a crystal clear situation.

We should expect to do all the methods of traditional unions. Technology should be seen in daily works of internet businesses’ union that is traditional paperwork shouldn’t exist.

This union should be the symbol of use of technology and innovation for improvement of works. Our union should change this trend.

Eteda Mehr: We are like the handle of an ax, if it turns that way, it would cut itself.

HosseiniNejad: I think the constitution or the commitment letter prepared in the union should confine people so that they can’t move beyond current needs and concerns.

Hashemi: I have this concern that now people like you have gathered together to form this union but if people with rigid and traditional thoughts become decision makers in the future, what would happen?

I hope this concern would be met with what Shahram Shahkar said, and by clearness, use of technology and making decision in rooms with open doors. We hope that forming such a union has a positive effect on the ecosystem.


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